采访：Brian Lai 

编辑整理：Brian Lai & Lavanie Yan

今年初，阳狮集团重组媒介代理业务成立了阳狮媒体，作为阳狮旗下专注效果营销的 Performics 也被整合进去。近期，Performics 全球 CEO  Michael Kahn 来到了中国，为此，SocialBeta 对 Michael Kahn 进行了专访，与我们聊聊 Performics 的品牌差异化有哪些，以及他对效果营销的趋势看法和中国电商和移动市场的观点。Michael Kahn 认为：时间、市场、强烈的进取心以及 Performics 现在整合的力量，将带领我们在市场中突围。

Michael Kahn，负责领导 Performics 全球的搜索及效果营销业务。Michael 在 2005 年加入 Performics，过去 8 年间的业务范围横跨美国、亚太、欧洲、中东、非洲和拉丁美洲。Michael 入行时从事的是传统代理商业务，他先后加入过凯旋公关、智威汤逊、Campbell Mithun Esty 和 DDB 公司，然后在 1998 年专项互联网营销，先后在 Art.com，TruePoints.com 和 VisaNow.com 担任过重要职务。Michael  毕业于美国威斯康星大学麦迪逊分校。

SocialBeta：Performics 将会成为阳狮媒体一个业务单元，对于这样子的转变，你有什么规划？

Michael Kahn：我目前担任阳狮媒体旗下效果营销业务单元 Performics 的全球 CEO。我的工作是整合、协调阳狮媒体效果营销的人才和能力，在世界范围帮助客户打造更有影响力的效果营销。阳狮媒体的整合对我们来说是一个很好的机遇，同时也是一个有挑战的任务。我们有非常出色的人才和能力，现在在做的就是将这些人才和能力整合起来，推动我们效果营销向前发展，帮助更多的客户。

SocialBeta：你认为 Performics 的优势都有哪些？

Michael Kahn：我从两方面概括。首先，Performics 在中国成立的这几年来，在上海，北京以及武汉都建立起了经验丰富和有深刻洞察能力的的团队，这是 Performics 中国的一大竞争优势。我们不仅仅服务于那些 Performics 从成立之时开始服务的做效果营销的直接客户，也将效果营销的理念带给更多品牌营销客户，使他们将效果营销的原理应用到品牌营销中去，我们也要进一步发展电商的解决方案。 

我认为 Performics 将会成为中国最强大的效果营销团队，尤其是当我们在阳狮媒体将这些效果营销的能力整合起来的时候。我们将整合效果营销的全方位能力，专注在以数据为导向的策划、洞察、分析、技术等专长，以及包括程序化购买、搜索、社会化媒体、移动媒体展示等方面，以及我们称之为效果内容即 SEO 业务，但现在更多以内容传递为主。另外，对移动和电商营销做更深入的挖掘，因为电商现在很关键。 

SocialBeta：目前，你认为效果营销的趋势有哪些？

Michael Kahn：我认为有三个趋势。第一，对于数据的应用，因为客户广告主以及代理商每天都得面对数据并思考如何应用。而现在，来自不同领域的数据像洪水海啸般涌入每个人的生活，但并不是全部的数据都得到了整合和很好的利用。 

我们想去创造一个解决方案去帮助客户理解什么数据是重要的，什么不是。让数据更透明，从而帮助我们了解消费者的兴趣和购买动机，并了解这些动机，帮助广告主在消费者购买流程时最好的时机做转化。所以，数据的应用在多大程度上将动机以及兴趣转化成消费行为，这是我们的首要目标。 

第二个趋势就是与中国市场非常相关的：是各种形态商务的涌现。直销、电子商务、移动电商和社会化电商等，这基本上就是全渠道的商业形态。我认为是商业的形态有不同的定义，它有自己的属性和发展方向。我们想做的正是成为推动商业向前发展的领导者，并且通过它自己发展的道路达到很好的商业目标。目前，市场上还没看到有想我们这样有有活力的机构在做，因此我们很有动力。 

第三趋势是移动，这个无论是中国还是全球都是如此。因此，当我们在思考消费者互动的时候，就必须以手机作为出发点去思考消费者在市场的参与以及这个参与是怎样衍生出其他消费行为的。所以这些事情是使得我们能够在行业内不断进步，而我们也投入了大量的时间以及努力到当中。 

SocialBeta：你如何看待中国的电子商务市场？ 

Michael Kahn：我刚刚结束了与阿里巴巴的一个演讲，和这个话题十分相关。数据显示，中国已是世界上最大的电子商务市场，比美国的规模还要大。而且中国市场很具活力，有像阿里巴巴这样子的巨头，也有很多新兴的电商公司进入，比如新兴的海淘领域。

因此，那么我的想法是也许效果营销的核心基础就是中国这个如此有活力的，有益于商贸的市场环境。所以我认为电子商务将会越来越成为效果营销和广告主投资的核心焦点。 

SocialBeta：程序化购买成为行业热门话题，你怎么看？

Michael Kahn：相对欧美市场，Ad Serving 在中国被接受的相对慢一点。所以程序化广告的出现，是中国广告主向前跳跃的一大步。程序化让我们可以做到规模化和基于人群、基于数据的投放。程序化投放能实现跨屏社交、移动和展示广告投放，我们认为市场会非常大。在数字的世界，我们做的任何事情的基础是如何实现媒体投放的最大化，包括自有媒体和赚得媒体。因此，程序化购买是实现这些目标的重要基础，对整个行业有重要的推动作用。

SocialBeta：从一个效果营销代理商的视角，你如何看待移动和数字给营销带来的影响？

Michael Kahn：移动已经成为中国营销市场的重要关键词。消费者行为，媒体行为和科技行为都从移动设备开始。 我觉得广告主一定要从移动设备的角度去构建你的设计和策略，以及消费者对品牌和其他媒体会有怎样的反应。而且一定要从用户体验的角度出发，确保广告主能够找到那个能引起消费者共鸣的体验。我认为这个方法应该成为设定效果衡量的标准，制定计划以及启动投资的基础。我觉得我们应该去更多接受这些移动设备和这种思考方式。 这是消费者互动的核心，我们应该围绕这些数据去做营销计划。所以移动设备是我们不能忽略的。

SocialBeta：面对快速变化的市场，Performics 中国如何应对？

Michael Kahn：这要讲到我们现在正在努力做的事情。我们正在尝试建立能够将数据以最佳方式运用到策划和洞察方面的能力。Performic 通过利用消费者相关的数据包括观点、兴趣，动机、消费场所来提升洞察和策划能力。与此同时，我们也推出了各种分析工具和解决方案，从移动设备的视角去帮助效果衡量，优化以及预测市场；同样的，这项技术也可以运用到媒体以及内容营销的团队当中。另外 Performics 中国引入了「Intent Lab」(消费者意图实验室)。它是服务于品牌的调研工具，可以帮助他们理解消费者是怎样表达动机以及消费的。「intent lab」是为了去理解消费者购买的动机，并帮助客户去提升购买转化。

SocialBeta：能否具体举个例？

Michael Kahn：我们已与众多的快消品牌和奢侈品品牌合作，他们使用「Intent Lab」 来研究消费者购物篮的关键词去分析购买动机，单个关键字和多个关键词与品牌和消费者决策历程的关联度是怎么样的。 

我们同时还有类似 Brand Health 的功能，去看有多少消费者是通过搜索、阅读文章推荐过来的，以此来了解消费者对品牌的兴趣和购买动机，并对实际购买行为进行分析，去帮助品牌更好地设定策略和对投放的时候进行效果预测优化。 

而这只是冰山的一角，我们将会在这方面做更多，将 Intent Lab 的理论应用到销售转化的层面，这也是我们付诸实践的理论支撑。

Here below is the original interview transcript（以下为英文采访原文）：

SocialBeta: We noticed that Performics will be one of the global Practices of Publicis Media, what is your plan on the transition?

Michael Kahn: I was given the task to be the global practice lead for the Performance Practices of Publicis Media, and the assignment and remit I have been given is to bring together, harmonize and align the assets, capability, practices and talent for all the people doing performance marketing across the Publicis media agencies. Bringing together all of them as one to create a much more powerful performance marketing capability for us in China, and in worldwide as well. And it’s an incredible opportunity and incredible mission. We have amazing talent and capabilities everywhere. We are now going to have the chance to bring those together to create something really really spectacular in the market place.

SocialBeta: What's the competitive advantages of Performics ? 

Michael Kahn: I will cover it in two ways. So Perfomics China’s competitive advantage is, and has been in market now for a number of years, and has built a rich and deep team in Shanghai, Beijing and Wuhan, with multiple offices and capabilities, doing work for pure play direct marketers-that people Performics marketing has built to offer, but also bring in performance marketing now to brand marketers as well, and learning to apply all that principle to focus on doing brand marketing, but want to drive to e-commerce solutions.

I think in China, and especially in the new Publicis Media world, when we bring all of our Performance team together, it will be the largest Performics practice in China. We are going to bring together people that focus on data-informed planning and insights, data-informed analytics and technology, full ability across Performance Media which is biddable and programmatic search, social, mobile, display, and what we call Performics content, which is the SEO business, but now rooted to be driving content delivery as well, and then really a deep-dive focus because of the dynamics in this market-surrounding both mobility and then e-commerce as well because ecommerce is so key. 

So what’s going to differentiate us? Time and market, spirited enterprise and now bringing together capabilities that will take us to a different scale.

SocialBeta: What performance trend is dominating your thoughts at the moment?

Michael Kahn: We have probably three answers to that. One is absolutely the harnessing and application of data, which is facing every client, facing every advertiser and facing every agency. And right now, data is available in a flood or tsunami and is coming from all different sources and is not all integrated or used. 

I think we want to create an ideal kind of practice and methodology where we can understand which data is important which isn’t, figure out the pipes to create the flow into that data, and then leverage that data to do what our big mission, which is to use that data to identify audience and consumer’s interest and intent, and then how that intent is expressed, and then the best points of the journey to convert it. 

So data application and how we can leverage and scale to identify and convert intent and interest, this is our number one goal. 

I think really relevant in China, the other thing we think about, is the emerging shape of ecommerce, and there is direct commerce, there is mobile or m-commerce, there is peer to peer social commerce. Basically, it’s taking all forms of Omni-channel commerce. I think what’s happening now is commerce has been defined in so many ways; it’s got its own pathway and attribution, and we want to take a leadership role in driving commerce and getting the commerce outcomes in all its way, shape, and form and pathways. There is no more dynamic, or complicated market to do that, so that keeps us up. 

And the final thing is there is so many markets in the world, and China is most definitely one where its mobility driven. So you got to almost start with your phone as the starting point to think about consumer engagement, and how that maps everything else. So those are the things that keeping us up at night and we are spending our time and effort to invest.

SocialBeta: What's your thoughts on China e-commerce market?

Michael Kahn: So I just got out of a presentation for an hour with Alibaba, which is so relevant, and the statistics show that this is the largest ecommerce market in the world, bigger than the U.S, which is grown by leaps amounts and in many cases, helped develop it. So if the largest ecommerce market, it’s so dynamic, you have a power house like Alibaba, but so many other jumping into it. 

So my view on it is, China e-commerce market may be the core of the performance marketing space, it’s the most dynamic market place environment to sell for in doing business in China. So I think it is going be more and more cornerstone of both our practice, and then the focus investment we make to help advertisers. 

SocialBeta: Programmatic buying is so popular in China now, what do you think? 

Michael Kahn: So I know that in China it’s been a market that has been slower to adapt and embrace ad serving, so that programmatic maybe the leap forward to now use the machine-based buying and audience information to get more automatic buying and almost replicate ad serving. 

So what we think is that programmatic allows you to do scalable, audience-based, data-informed buying, and if you will machine based buying, across social, mobile, and display. I think it is going to be a bigger bigger part of what we do. I also come back and say it’s a cornerstone of what we do because in the new digital world, you got to sell for how you do media best, but you got to also sell for how you do owned and earned marketing best as well. So programmatic is going to be a key foundation. I think it is going to help this market place hugely. In terms of China, taking a step up in terms of its media investments online, but it’s just one part of what I think advertisers have to sell for with their owned and earned visibility as well. 

SocialBeta: Mobile and digital have reshaped the marketing world, consumer behaviour is changing all the time. How do you understand this kind of environment, from a performance agency perspective?

Michael Kahn: I think as we’ve learned and this is what I will say about China, and maybe in some cases, the East-mobile is the center of it. Consumer behavior, media behavior, technology behavior starts with mobile. 

I think you have to have a mobile first lens to your strategy for designing and gathering your insights, and how consumers are reacting with brands, and then with other media. I think you have to do it from a user experience perspective, and making sure the advertiser has the right experience that can be found. I think it should be the core of the way you are setting up your measurement, and for you plans, and obviously it should be the cornerstone of activation of investment. I think it is embracing that the mobile device, and a mobility mind set is the corner of consumer engagement, and then building your data and marketing plans around that. So I think it’s a key you can’t ignore.

SocialBeta: Faced with those challenges, how will Performics China address those problems?

Michael Kahn: I will go back to what we were trying to do. We are trying to set up an incredible planning and insights capability that’s leveraging data in smartest way. About all the ways that consumers are expressing interest and intent, where they doing it, and certainly rooted in mobility-that’s part of what we were doing. We also try to create analytics and technology solutions that help with measurement, optimization and predictive marketing with a mobile lens and perspective, and then thinking about our media and content campaigns in the very same way. And the one thing we’ve introduce for Performics and our doing in China is something called the 「Intent Lab」 which is an ongoing vehicle for doing research studies, on behalf of brands, on how consumers are expressing intent and deciding to buy.

So we are very much going deep on that area to understand consumer intent to give us the ability to convert it to revenue.

SocialBeta: Can you give an example? 

Michael Kahn: We've got work on a variety of fast moving consumer good and focus in the upscale consumer good or luxury good category and we are using the 「Intent Lab」capability to take a look at baskets of key words and then use that to understand the consumer behavior behind those key words in its connection to brand. The relationship of a single key word, or multiple key words, how its tie-in to the brand, and how its tie in to the consumer journey.

We also setting up other studies in the areas of things like brand health, and what is the involvement with consumers online, by searches, by articles read, by recommendations, by path-through, as a state of brand health, involvement and engagement. And those are all going to be things to give a sense of what’s the interest and intent being expressed in a brand, and then what could be led back into analysis of the actual purchases being made. All gets to the point of being able to better set strategy, and better predict the outcome based on investment made.      

And that just the tip of the iceberg, I think we will be doing a lot more in that area with using this 「Intent Lab」philosophy-in what we call converting intentions into revenue at scale, making it an underpinning of what we do into practice.